Magness and steel marble

[GwenArBreizhou]

Hi,
I promise, it's the last (for today ;o)).
Will it be possible to create an applet where a stell marble is rolling on the floor and its trajectory is deviated by a magness we could move ?

Thanks in advance,
best regards,

[Fu-Kwun Hwang]

Do you need a 2D or 3D simulation? What are the conditions for the magnet ? (the speed, moving trajectory in fixed direction or ...)

For a simulation to be created , a detail model need to be described.
I would not be able to help if you did not describe it in detail.
I need to understand what you really want.

[GwenArBreizhou]

I think 2D will be enough.

The experiment is the one you can see on this movie
http://www.physique-appliquee.net/videos/mecanique/deviation_bille.mov

So, moving trajectory in fixed direction.
The speed of the marble can be changed.
The place where we put the magnet can be changed as well.

Is it better described like this or do you need any other details ?

Regards,

[Fu-Kwun Hwang]

Thank you for the movie. I know much more what you might want. But I still have some more questions.
Do you want to simulate a ball attracted by a magnet or you want to simulate a charged particle moving straight, and then attracted by another changed particle.
Please write down the purpose for the simulation you want.
Is it for teaching some physics concept? What is the physics you want to be simulated.
Let me know more about what you really want. Please write more sentences!

[GwenArBreizhou]

Hi,
I will try to write more sentences to be the clearest it's possible to be. But it's such a long time I've not written in Shakespeare's language that it's sometimes difficult to find the correct word.
I'm teaching in "college" (in France it means for children between 11 and  15 years old) and this year, we have been told by our hierarchy that we have to speak about gravitation without using vectors and using the word "force".

So we have to make analogy with slingshot and magnet to make students imagine what gravitational interaction is.

I allways use computer tools to teach and since all my students in third class have laptop in school, for this course I would like to make them work on it.

My favorite tools to let students work in autonomy are Didapages and Exelearning. They let you insert what kind of media you want and to create test for being sure everything has been understood.

With the first one, I made books like
http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/capes/Doc/Didapages/Forces/index.html
or
http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/capes/Doc/Didapages/Vitesse/index.html

and with the  other one, my only work from now on is this course on oscilloscope
http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/c03/Electricite/Html/Oscillo-ol/index.html

So, to reply to your questions I just need to show children that a magnet can modify trajectory of the ball without touching it, that a remote interaction can exist so they will think about the same kind of intercation for Earth and Moon interactions.

Regards,

[Fu-Kwun Hwang]

I can create some simulation for oscillascope if you allow me to use the picture in your oscilloscope page.
I created a simple many years ago: Basic Function of an Oscilloscope.
And a French version can be found at http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/oldjava/cd-labo/oscillo/f_exper.htm


I hope the following is what you might want.
You can drag the magnet with mouse to other positions and click run again.
It will remember the last 5 traces.
Some of the position might not look right.
But I am using real gravitation formula to simulate it.
Actually, the magnet was simulated with the blue point near the center.

Attached image is the snapshot image created (Right Click select Capture the screen -> Snapshot ->save )

Because I only use one point and gravitation potential to simulate the magnet,
 the model has it's limitation. You can use this to teach the limitation of physics model,too!
To really simulate a real magnet more complicate model need to be created
(dipole model will be more suitable for magnet but you want to teach about gravitation, so I use gravitation force in this simulation). I hope this is what you wanted.

Let me know what need to be improved.
The following is not an image but a java simulation (with image as background).

Embed a running copy of this simulation
<applet code='users.ntnu.fkh.magnetdeflect_pkg.magnetdeflectApplet.class' archive='http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/ejsuser/2/ejs_magnetdeflect.jar' name='magnetdeflect4066' id='magnetdeflect4066' width='729' height='578' mayscript=true><param name='draggable' value='true'></applet>
Embed a running copy link(show simulation in a popuped window)
<a href='http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/msg.php?smfejs=4066' target='smfejs'>Run simulation</a>

Full screen applet or Problem viewing java?Add http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ to exception site list
Press the Alt key and the left mouse button to drag the applet off the browser and onto the desktop. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Taiwan License

• Please feel free to post your ideas about how to use the simulation for better teaching and learning.
• Post questions to be asked to help students to think, to explore.
• Upload worksheets as attached files to share with more users.

Let's work together. We can help more users understand physics conceptually and enjoy the fun of learning physics!

[GwenArBreizhou]

Thanks a lot.
Except when the magnet is in the trajectory of the ball and then the ball passes throw the magnet. But as you said, it will show them limitations of simulation.

Regards,

[GwenArBreizhou]

Hi,
here's the french tranlslated file

Regards,

PS : Let me know when you will find a solution to have it in french when launch like applet in a website.

[GwenArBreizhou]

Hi,
a long time we didn't discuss.

I got a problem with your simulation when launched in this page
http://gwenaelm.free.fr/2008-9/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=1207
with Firefox and Chrome but not with IE 7.

Whereas when I ask for it in this page
http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/c03/Mecanique/Html/Gravitation/manipulation__deuxime.html
or in this one
http://rivenzic.free.fr/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=358:test&catid=47:archives&Itemid=148
there is no problem ...

When I ask for java console to tell me what's wrong, it close without letting me copy the log so I made a screen capture you can find here
http://gwenaelm.free.fr//Divers/Images/guppy6.jpg

And for the page where it work, I got a lot of error messages you can read here
http://gwenaelm.free.fr//Divers/Images/guppy.txt

FF, Chrome and java have all been updated, I have suppressed the historic and cache ...

And now I don't know what to do.

Do you have any idea ?

Thanks in advance,
best regards,

[Fu-Kwun Hwang]

I found the same problem as you did. 

http://gwenaelm.free.fr/2008-9/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=1207
It is working for IE7 but it is not working for firefox.

I would suggest you copy ejs_users_ntnu_fkh_magnetdeflect_fr.jar from file directory at http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/c03/Mecanique/Html/Gravitation/manipulation__deuxime.html to file directory for http://gwenaelm.free.fr/2008-9/articles.php
and change the applet tag from

Code:

archive="http://gwenaelm.free.fr/Physique/Physchim/c03/Mecanique/Html/Gravitation/ejs_users_ntnu_fkh_magnetdeflect_fr.jar"

to

Code:

archive="ejs_users_ntnu_fkh_magnetdeflect_fr.jar"

, and find out if it is working.

[TaraLaster]

Hi,
here's the french tranlslated file

Regards,

PS : Let me know when you will find a solution to have it in french when launch like applet in a website.

I encountered this too.

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[prakash1997]

Great work dude -*-